Is Tower Hamlets Council operating an agenda that compares with the EDL's aims? Question raised via the GUARDIAN

Is Tower Hamlets Council operating an agenda that compares with the EDL's aims? Question raised via the GUARDIAN

Muhammad Haque Daily Constitutional, Constitutional Law, Ethics, Morality and Democracy Commentary: CONDEM bans democracy 'for 30 days' as a start!

140 [0100] Hrs GMT London Sunday 28 August 2011

© Muhammad Haque Daily Constitutional, Constitutional Law, Ethics, Morality and Democracy Commentary about the state of morality-free career politics and opportunist posturing by the assorted “left” branded stooges, careerists and operatives for the anti-democratic agenda being continued [from Calgarian, Thatcher and Bliared years and now, under many contemporarily disguised, configured and staged “events” being] carried out by the CONDEM Collusion. Contextually Series as updated [2].

What a deeply ignorant and immature "viewpoint" by the Communist Party of Great Britain [CPGB] organ the "Morning Star" as I have cited it a post ago. It [the "Morning Star"] cannot bring itself to facing the fact that Tower Hamlets Council is a very bankrupt Council: bankrupt politically, bankrupt democratically and above all bankrupt ethically.

The ONLY way that any threat to the local community as “contained and extrapolated” from the staged outfit concerning the 03 September 2011 “March” could be dealt with by the COMMUNITY in and of Tower Hamlets would have been by asserting the peoples’ democratic mandate.

That mandate has been denied.

It has been suppressed.

Even with the limitations that the Council and the Councllors’ elections [as dated 06 May 2010] typify and exhibit, a fully pro-democratic Tower Hamlets Council and on that evidential basis, a Community meeting examining the Council's state and role on the its constitutional, electoral, democratic duty to deliver democratically warranted services and accountability to the community would have put on the record for all to see a tenably representative picture of life in the "most deprived", East London, inner city borough of Tower Hamlets.

And that would tell any racist and or anti-Muslim or "anti-Jewish" or anti-faith groups propagandists the truth.

And THAT would be the most compelling responsible and competent demonstration of the response to the antidemocratic “thereat” as linked with the “march” “through Tower Hamlets” on or about 03 September 2011.

If not the whole, coherent and unadulterated truth but at least a reasonably representative and tenable truth. As opposed to the anti-democratic, secret-agenda-linked banning powers of the decision-making personnel that collectively and mostly anonymously and unaccountably make up what is called “the State” that is operated in accordance with the agenda of Big Business and the Military Industrial Complex.

[To be continued]

Kay Jordan Foundation for Education Equality Environment and Enterprise. The Situation report on the state of East End : Starts here shortly

1850 Hrs GMT

London

Saturday

27 August 2011

Kay Jordan Foundation for Education Equality Environment and Enterprise. The Situation report on the state of East End :

Starts here shortly.

[To be continued]

Can this be really bigger than Rupert Murdoch's Empire? It can be. And it is. We are reporting for and with and from the local community Murdoch denie

BIGGER THAN RUPERT MURDOCH’s GLOBAL MEDIA

EMPIRE could ever do to justify its many claims...

We have been reporting for the East End now for 31 years.

But we are associated with either outlets that have carried out pioneering

journalism for more than fifty years about and for the East End of

London. Combining the evidential and the empirical resources of the

two strands of unique action defending the people in the area and

sending the message to the same effect for the people way beyond the

borders and boundaries of London and the UK, we are bringing about

a local record for universal values and rights that is not matched by

Rupert Murdoch... Despite his bombastic claims, as glimpsed during

his ‘humble day’ appearance before a committee of MPs in the British

House of Commons, Rupert Murdoch’s global empire is not serving

the people. Not globally. Certainly not in the Eats End of London! yet

it is here that the Murdoch Empire is actually housed! Not in the USA,

contrary to the impression that he gives and the impression that the

“Fleet Street” “main stream newspapers” give... So what it is that we

have been serving for the record and on the record for the people that

even Murdoch has failed to even think of doing: We have been telling

the truth about the East End people and we have been campaigning for

the community of people and the lawful enterprises... And much else

besides...

Over the next seven days we shall be reporting on the Brick Lane

London E1 area covering all the events and trends that matter to the

local community. Residents and businesses. we shall look in depth at

the POLICE RAID on a number of Brick Lane curry restaurants on 19

July 2011 and 27 July 2011. We shall analyse the role of Tower

Hamlets Council as the ‘Licensing ’ authority in the context of the

raids and publish the latest findings of our investigation into the claim

by Tower Hamlets Council that they are helping the small and micro

businesses in the area. Does Tower Hamlets Council have the right, on

the facts of its behaviour, to make the claims that it is helping the

lawful businesses and the healthy,m safe and hygienic life of the local

community? Is this why there is filth in the streets? Tower Hamlets

Council letting ‘anonymous’ yobs to daily and mostly nightly and

even more frequently during the early hours of the day - litter the

streets and pavements with the effects of bad behaviour and disrespect

tom local residents and assaults on local law abiding businesses?.

BIGGER THAN RUPERT MURDOCH’s GLOBAL MEDIA

EMPIRE could ever do to justify its many claims...

We have been reporting for the East End now for 31 years. But we are

associated with either outlets that have carried out pioneering

journalism for more than fifty years about and for the East End of

London. Combining the evidential and the empirical resources of the

two strands of unique action defending the people in the area and

sending the message to the same effect for the people way beyond the

borders and boundaries of London and the UK, we are bringing about

a f local record for universal values and rights that is not matched by

Rupert Murdoch... Despite his bombastic claims, as glimpsed during

his ‘humble day’ appearance before a committee of MPs in the British

House of Commons, Rupert Murdoch’s global empire is not serving

the people. Not globally. Certainly not in the Eats End of London! yet

it is here that the Murdoch Empire is actually housed! Not in the USA,

contrary to the impression that he gives and the impression that the

“Fleet Street” “main stream newspapers” give... So what it is that we

have been serving for the record and on the record for the people that

even Murdoch has failed to even think of doing: We have been telling

the truth about the East End people and we have been campaigning for

the community of people and the lawful enterprises... And much else

besides...

Over the next seven days we shall be reporting on the Brick Lane

London E1 area covering all the events and trends that matter to the

local community. Residents and businesses. we shall look in depth at

the POLICE RAID on a number of Brick Lane curry restaurants on 19

July 2011 and 27 July 2011. We shall analyse the role of Tower

Hamlets Council as the ‘Licensing ’ authority in the context of the

raids and publish the latest findings of our investigation into the claim

by Tower Hamlets Council that they are helping the small and micro

businesses in the area. Does Tower Hamlets Council have the right, on

the facts of its behaviour, to make the claims that it is helping the

lawful businesses and the healthy,m safe and hygienic life of the local

community? Is this why there is filth in the streets? Tower Hamlets

Council letting ‘anonymous’ yobs to daily and mostly nightly and

even more frequently during the early hours of the day - litter the

streets and pavements with the effects of bad behaviour and disrespect

tom local residents and assaults on local law abiding businesses?.

2012 “listing” of Brick Lane as ‘Curry Capital”

is not reality on the ground as Tower Hamlets, the ‘local Council’ fails to show respect to the community. The

standard of the Council's service e is low and is getting lower...

SPEAKING UP

FOR THE LOCAL

COMMUNITY:

BRICK LANE

COMMUNITY

of residents

and businesses

deserve good

and reliable

service by the

local Tower

Hamlets

Council.

The Community of residents and

businesses support lawful

behaviour. We do not accept

Tower Hamlets Council’s

behaviour in neglecting their

duties to stop the nuisance and

yob behaviour...

IN THE NEXT editions, we shall

be bringing updater reports

including interviews with the

following:

Askir Miah, local resident and

supporter of campaigns in

defence of the community

]© Muhammad Haque files yet another historic exclusive comment the real moral collapse in Britain. This moral collapse will haunt David Cameron long

[© Editor Muhamad Haque

AADHAR Media publishing

ALL VOLUNTEERS NEWS

Brick Lane Today

and

KHOODEELAAR!

n association with the Kay Jordan Foundation

and CBRUK and the Brick Lane Community

Business Forum at 0900 Hrs GMT London

Wednesday 24 August 2011

]

[ ALSO COMING here NEXT this week:

How Ken Livingstone, Boris Johnson and the “EDL” have been making some odd bed fellows in the name of their “interests” in Tower Hamlets. And why OFCOM’s “findings” on the ethnicity channel over Ken Livingstone's "Baishaki" "solidarity" fakery leaves m,most f the facts out f the banal and timid "inquiry".

PLU

]

[COMING NEXT this week:

Community builder Graham Hobbs

reflects on his campaigning days with

Kay Jordan, the East End’s very

own community architect and pioneer

business woman of the sustainable community kind!

]© Muhammad Haque files yet another historic exclusive comment the real moral collapse in Britain. This moral collapse will haunt David Cameron for far longer than Andy Coulson could “reassuringly”

[!!!] script it for him! Also published on the web site of the London weekly the SPECTATOR earlier today 24 August 2011

I recall so many things that were being said in the early 1980s on the corridors of the London County Hall that had successfully been linked with several individuals in "political office" who had received gifts from the Libya Colonel. Typically, I was successful in staying away from the gifts and also from the gift-takers. But the observation remains: how did they justify taking the Libyan dosh and how , now, are they able to stay so calm and say nought! It must be down to those "British vah-loos" that Gordon Brown was so fond of boasting about! The same vah-loos that took Tony Blair to Tripoli where he did receive his equivalents of the Libyan's gifts! I wonder what will be revealed as being the "moral" equivalent that David Cameron and his CONDEM allies have done with Libya! Moral Collapse indeed! What Brown, cameron and Blair, to name only the recent three tokens, must remember is this: ordinary humanity will never forgive the crimes that suit-wearing stooges and agents of Big Business do at the behest of the Military industrial Complex. If Libya Gaddafi was undermining humanity and democracy then he was doing so for decades. He was not attacked then. So the only reason he is attacked now is because he is refusing to proffer enough gifts. This is not responsible politics. This is not legal war. This is not legal occupation. And Cameron will never live down the dire betrayal of the UNO’s founding Conventions that he has taken part in perpetrating. Society cannot but lose from such examples of law-breaking by any sitting Prime Minister. People are watching as Cameron goes from one moral contradiction and hypocrisy to the next. Who will bring Cameron to moral order and discipline? Society needs a movement precisely to bring that overdue moral and ethical and democratic accountability about.

CORRUPTION GOVERNMENT in INDIA must end, vows anti-corruption campaigner Anna Hazare

Taken from

http://ibnlive.in.com

"

Click to play video

Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devil's Advocate. As Anna Hazare's fast finally gets underway at Delhi's Ramlila ground. It's time to ask serious questions about Anna Hazare's attitude to Parliament and the implications of the people-power movement he's created. Those are the issues I will raise with two of his close lieutenants, Prashant Bhushan and Arvind Kejriwal. Arvind Kejriwal, on Friday Anna Hazare said that he would continue his fast unto death, unless Parliament passed in this session the Jan Lokpal Bill, that's within 18 days flat. What is the justification for this high-handed and what some will consider outrageous stand?

Arvind Kejriwal: You see this Bill has been in the Parliament for 42 years. Is that a small amount of time for the people of this country to wait?

Karan Thapar: But that's not the responsibility of this Parliament. You can't blame this Parliament for the errors and faults of successive Parliaments for the last 40 years.

Arvind Kejriwal: So it's not about this Parliament, the people of this country have been waiting for a strong anti-corruption law for a very long time and therefore now… In April also when people came on the streets, there was a joint drafting committee. We joined the joint drafting committee with all good intentions, with all sincerity and honesty. However, the way the drafting committee meetings were conducted and the dishonesty with which the government conducted itself clearly show that now the people have to take to streets and demand from the government.

Karan Thapar: Now hang on a moment. I'm not sure it clearly shows anything of the sort. I'm asking you a simple question. How do you justify a demand that a man will fast unto death unless Parliament passes within 18 days flat a Jan Lokpal Bill that he wants, as he wants it. That to most people is not only high-handed it is an outrageous attempted blackmailing Parliament.

Arvind Kejriwal: So there are two issues to your question. One is whether this Bill or not and the other is whether this time limit is reasonable or not.

Karan Thapar: Absolutely.

Arvind Kejriwal: Now the time limit is certainly reasonable because Shanti Bhushan in the morning said and he made a statement that it is very easy for the government to pass this. The same Parliament within 5 minutes can pass 15 bills, so if the people of this country are demanding…

Karan Thapar: But we do not applaud Parliament when in five minutes it does that, which is why… Why insist that a bad habit made over previous legislation should be repeated on something as critical as this. (To Prashant Bhushan) Let me bring you in and put this to you. The Lokpal Bill is likely to be one of the most important Constitutional measures passed by the Indian Parliament for many decades to come. Why are you insisting that it should be passed in 18 days flat, which doesn't give Parliament the time to consider it and debate it. It doesn't give the standing committee that time it needs to get people's opinion and it certainly doesn't allow for a proper debate. That is high-handed.

Prashant Bhushan: See there has been considerable discussion and debate about not just this Lokpal Bill which we have proposed or the one that the government has proposed or even the previous Bill there has been… The question is will you allow this to go on interminably in the Parliament. You see in the Parliament if they want to debate it they can take three-four days to debate it.

Karan Thapar: Is it going on interminably, your bill came into being in December. In April you launched your first hunger strike, that was just four months. Since then three more months have passed. Parliament has now sat down and will be debating, discussing through standing committee and on the floor. Where is it going on interminably? Eight months is not a very long time. In Parliament it's only been there since the 4th of August.

Arvind Kejriwal: No Karan I think you are making a mistake. You are trying to show as if this issue has started in last six months. This issue has been in Parliament for 42 years. The people of this country have been waiting for 42 years; they did not get a strong anti-corruption law. There have been eight standing committees who have already examined this issue in detail.

Karan Thapar: No double but those referred to earlier Parliaments. You cannot hold this Parliament accountable for the lapses of the past. Just as you are not responsible for the lapses of your ancestors, this Parliament is not responsible for the lapses of its predecessors.

Arvind Kejriwal: We are not holding anyone responsible, we are just saying that the people have already waited for a long time and the material—eight standing committees have already examined this issue in great detail. The material is there.

Karan Thapar: They haven't examined this particular version but let's leave the time line aside, that's a minor concern. The bigger concern, Prashant Bhushan, is your insistence that it has to be the Jan Lokpal Bill. I want to quote to you what Anna Hazare said on Friday. Jab tak Jan Lokpal Bill pass karkar nahi aayega, hum nahi hatenge. Hamara angkshat nahi rukega. (We will not back off until the Jan Lokpal Bill is passed. Our fast will not stop.) Why this insistence on only one particular Bill? That again is abrogating Parliament's prerogative to choose what sort of bill Parliament in its wisdom thinks fit.

Prashant Bhushan: Of course Parliament will have to pass the Bill finally and they have to pass whatever Bill they pass.

Karan Thapar: But that's not what Anna Hazare is saying.

Prashant Bhushan: What Anna Hazare is saying is, I'm making an appeal to the people of this country as well as to the members of Parliament, as well as to this government, to bring a Bill which he considers is necessary for fighting corruption.

Karan Thapar: No, I'm afraid you are interpreting Anna to change what he said. He said, he made it very clear, jab tak Jan Lokpal Bill pass nahi hoga (until the Jan Lokpal Bill is passed). Therefore he is not making an appeal, he is saying that he will continue to fats onto death, that is quasi blackmailing. And secondly he is insisting on his Jan Lokpal Bill.

Prashant Bhushan: So is a person not entitled to make an appeal to the members of Parliament and then to the government.

Karan Thapar: But this is not an appeal. You keep using the word appeal, this is not an appeal this is blackmail.

b>Prashant Bhushan: No, no what is blackmail, he doesn't have a gun in his hand.

Karan Thapar: You don't need a gun to blackmail.

Prashant Bhushan: What is blackmail? If Mahatma Gandhi…

Karan Thapar: By not leaving people a choice. By threatening to commit suicide.

Arvind Kejriwal: And why do you think Karan that the government is listening to him?

Karan Thapar: Well in fact the government may not be. He is attempting to blackmail. I'm not saying that the government is listening. And I am saying that this attempt to blackmail is to override the prerogative of Parliament. Parliament is critical to our democracy.

Arvind Kejriwal: According to you is the Parliament supreme or are the people supreme, what do you think?

Karan Thapar: This is very interesting, you are trying to create a divide between the people and Parliament in a freely elected democracy, which is what India is. People express themselves through Parliament not in opposition and defiance of Parliament. You are creating a divide between people and Parliament.

Arvind Kejriwal: Do you think that the Parliament is disconnected today from the people?

Karan Thapar: The people have voted, the people may have grievances but let me put this to you…

Arvind Kejriwal: Is that sufficient for democracy?

Karan Thapar:Who gave you and Anna Hazare the right to claim that you are better representatives of the people then Parliament?

Arvind Kejriwal: We never said that.

Karan Thapar: Then how are putting yourself in opposition? Why are you making this demand of Parliament?

Arvind Kejriwal: We can always say, I can say that we want this Bill, right? I as an ordinary citizen have this right to say that. That I as a citizen of this country want this kind of a Bill. Now if a large number of people start supporting that idea…

Karan Thapar: What large number are we talking about. No, hang on, what is this large number. Please explain what is this large number. Let me put this to you. A survey done by Yogendra Yadav, published by the Hindu and released by this channel shows that only 45 per cent of India have heard of Anna Hazare, only 34 per cent have heard of the Lokpal, only 24 per cent know what the Lokpal is. Where is this great support you are talking about?

Arvind Kejriwal: This is more than the votes Congress got. Only 11 crore people voted for Congress out of 120 crore people, this is more than that.

Karan Thapar: Hang on a second you are once again deeply mistaken, you do believe that you have got great support. Even if one were to say that 5 lakh people came out in the last three days on the streets of urban Indian and that is an exaggeration, that is less than half of 1 per cent of the population of India. Who elected Anna Hazare?

Arvind Kejriwal: I'm just saying, let's assume only 500 people came on the streets. And let's assume Anna says yeh bill jabtak nahi pass karoge tabtak mein chhind pey baitha rahoonga (until you pass this Bill I will fast).

Karan Thapar: That is what he's saying. We don't have to suppose it.

Arvind Kejriwal: Right. Let us assume that he is saying this and that just 500 people came on the streets. The government can easily force-feed him. Why is the government not doing that?

Karan Thapar: The government may be tolerant. Let's not deviate…

Arvind Kejriwal: Karan I'm trying to answer your question. What I'm trying to say is that the government is not responding not because it is Anna Hazare, the government is not responding because it is afraid of the public and you should have seen public mood yesterday when he came out of Tihar.

Karan Thapar: That's the point I'm making. What is this public mood you're quoting. If even 5 lakhs have come out on the streets to support you, and that itself is an exaggeration because you had much less than that, that's not even, Prashant Bhushan, half of 1 per cent of the population of India.

Prashant Bhushan: Alright let's say, what kind of opinion poll your channel does. How many people are in that sample, when they predict election results etc.? Today far bigger, 50 times bigger, opinion polls, referendums have been done, involving lakhs of people in the country, not just by us, by a large number of independent media organisations and polling organisations, including your channel. Each one of them without exception is showing virtually a 90 per cent vs 10 per cent divide. Meaning 90 per cent of the people in this country who have been polled or interviewed show that they support Anna Hazare's Jan Lokpal Bill and only 10 per cent support the government's Bill. So the question is when in these circumstances it is virtually clear that the vast majority of the people in this country who are aware of the Lokpal Bills are in support of Anna Hazare's Jan Lokpal Bill, then the question is can the government say that we will just ignore what the people are saying? Have a referendum, what's the problem.

Karan Thapar: You have raised two essential issues, let's take them one by one. First of all you are talking about referendum, they are not referendums, they are accurately called surveys. Number two leaving aside the questions the Press has raised about the surveys you have conducted in the constituencies that you have chosen - questions to do with methodologies, questions to do alleged lopsided questions that were asked, questions to do with the fact that perhaps 50 per cent of the sheets you gave out were not responded to - that apart, at most you would have reached out to 10 or 15 million people. Once again in a population of 1.2 billion that's not even a drop in the ocean. Where is your mandate to clam that you have a greater authority than Parliament that you can demand of Parliament freely elected by 1.2 billion that they should pass just the Jan Lokpal Bill.

Arvind Kejriwal: I as a citizen have every right to demand from my Parliament…

Karan Thapar: Not to blackmail though.

Prashant Bhushan: What is this question of blackmail. I think again and again you are raising this question of blackmail. Suppose I make a demand, was Gandhiji always blackmailing people? Was Gandhiji always blackmailing the government etc.? I mean, you're talking as if fast is a method of blackmail.

Karan Thapar: Well hang on a second the answer is yes and when this question was put to Anna Hazare he said that he would be glad to blackmail. So he doesn't deny he is blackmailing, he embraces it.

Prashant Bhushan: He says if this is called blackmail, if exercising your moral authority is called blackmail then he will continue to do that.

Arvind Kejriwal: Ok Karan I want to ask you two questions.

Karan Thapar: No don't ask me questions.

Arvind Kejriwal: No I just want to know from you don't you agree that it is the duty of Parliament to do what the people of this country want to do?

Karan Thapar: Who determines what the people want?

Arvind Kejriwal: That is my next question to you. How do we determine what the people want?

Karan Thapar: I'll tell you. The people in any democracy speak through their Parliament. This Parliament is freely elected by 1.2 billion Indians. Who has represented or mandated Anna Hazare, no one. You are self-elected.

Arvind Kejriwal: Forget about us.

Karan Thapar: It's you versus Parliament at the moment. How can I forget about you.

Arvind Kejriwal: Please allow me to speak. In your last interview someone counted the words, you spoke 24,000 words and I spoke 16, 000 words.

Karan Thapar: Don't waste the time answer the question because if you want to waste time, you can't.

Prashant Bhushan: There is no point in responding to you because you don't allow us to answer, you go on asking questions, you go on interrupting we can't continue in this manner. You see we have not come here to listen to you.

Karan Thapar: You are not listening to me. I'm asking you to answer. Where does your mandate come that gives you prerogative and power over Parliament.

Prashant Bhushan: So he is answering that.

Arvind Kejriwal: You agree that it is the duty of the Parliament to do what the people of this country want them to do. I voted them to power two years back, for another three years they will be in power. Now I as a citizen am feeling very frustrated about corruption, what do I do - wait for three years to remove them? I have no other option in between. So what is the mechanism available before me to tell my Parliamentarians that look, you should do this in Parliament.

Karan Thapar: But the question is how do you do the telling? If you starve yourself to death and try to blackmail Parliament you are coercing Parliament. Number two, if you lay down a law that they can only pass your version of the bill you are overcoming their prerogative.

Arvind Kejriwal: Please let me know what are the other options with us that we should do.

Karan Thapar: Petition them through your MPs, petition them through the press.

Arvind Kejriwal: We did that.

Karan Thapar: No hang on a second, you may have not done enough of it. The essential point is this; you may be frustrated that is still no reason why your version has to be passed.

Prashant Bhushan: They are free not to accept our version. They are free to pass their own version. We are not putting a gun on their heads. Anna Hazare has only gone on fast to appeal to the moral authority…

Karan Thapar: Appeal is the wrong word. Let me put this to you. You say they are free not to pass your version, therefore are you saying that if Parliament calls your bluff and lets Anna Hazare's fast continue, you are prepared for him to die.

Arvind Kejriwal: That is Anna's call.

Karan Thapar: Well hang on, he (Prashant Bhushan) made the point, let him answer it.

Prashant Bhushan: No that is Anna's call. He has decided that he is going on an indefinite fast till such time that the Government at least introduces his Bill.

Karan Thapar: No he didn't say introduce…

Prashant Bhushan: Ok, very well, introduce and pass this Bill.

Karan Thapar: Pass is the important thing, and in 18 days flat.

Prashant Bhushan: In three days they passed… you see, three-four days are enough to discuss and pass this Bill in Parliament. If the government had a will they can introduce it on Monday or Tuesday.

Karan Thapar: Who says three-four days are enough, if Parliament wants to discuss longer, if the standing committee wants to bring an opinion from outside, do they not have the right to do so?

Prashant Bhushan: Have they ever discussed any Bill in the Parliament for more than four days?

Karan Thapar: Is that not a reason why this time on a critical legislation they should be more careful and have prolonged deliberation?

Prashant Bhushan: They have had deliberations on this Lokpal Bill, many Parliaments have had, there has been enough discussions on this issue.

Arvind Kejriwal: According to you how much time is required for deliberations?

Karan Thapar: As much time as Parliament thinks is necessary, I respect Parliament's right and give them the right to decide.

Arvind Kejriwal: So let the Parliament say they need more than 18 days. Why should Karan Thapar decide it?

Karan Thapar: Why should Parliament have to answer to you?

Arvind Kejriwal: Of course, we are the people of India.

Karan Thapar: You are not the people of India. That's the point I'm making you are not the people of India. The people are separate from you.

Prashant Bhushan: That this why we are entitled to make our appeal to the people, if the government is challenging us that who are you, we are telling the government…

Arvind Kejriwal: Karan if you start isolating the voices on an individual… you are not the people, you are not the people, you are not the people. We are entitled to speak as one individual. And if that particular voice gains momentum across and starts resonating…

Karan Thapar: That's the point I'm questioning. Who mandated you to speak for India and where is the resonance…

Arvind Kejriwal:We are not speaking for India….

Karan Thapar:… If 5 lakh come out that is nothing in a population of 1.2 billion.

Arvind Kejriwal: So let it be.

Karan Thapar: India is Anna, Anna is India. Are Napoleonic tendencies coming to the forefront…

Arvind Kejriwal: That I don't agree with.

Karan Thapar: Prashant Bhushan, Kiran Bedi ended her speech on Friday saying three times, Anna is India and India is Anna. I put it to you that echoes the sentiments of Dev Kant Baruah during the emergency, it echoes what Rudolf Hayes said about Hitler. Is that the sort of message you are sending to India?

Prashant Bhushan: No I don't agree with that…

Arvind Kejriwal: I don't agree with that either.

Prashant Bhushan: Perhaps she said that in a moment of excitement.

Karan Thapar: She hasn't withdrawn it as yet.

Prashant Bhushan: No if she is asked then she may rethink.

Karan Thapar: There is a leader in today's ‘Hindu' explicitly criticising this. It has clearly attracted attention.

Arvind Kejriwal: We completely agree. I don't agree and as Prashant says if she is again questioned… maybe in excitement she said it, she may rethink.

Karan Thapar: So both of you dissociate yourself from this sentiment.

Arvind Kejriwal: Yes.

Prashant Bhushan: Yes, of course.

Karan Thapar: The reason I asked you is that lying behind this sentiment, people feel is a certain arrogance about your bill, a certain intolerance about other people's versions of the Lokpal Bill, and an attempt to use blackmail of the brute force of numbers to bully Parliament. And even though your cause, fighting against corruption, is one that people agree with, this arrogance, this intolerance, this use of brute force worries them.

Arvind Kejriwal: You see, there should not be any arrogance. We have always been very polite, very logical, very reasonable. In some moments of excitements if there have been some statements, we are completely willing to rethink and withdraw those statements.

Karan Thapar: So there is a hint of apology there.

Arvind Kejriwal: Of course we don't agree with that sentiment or that statement. We completely don't agree with that.

Karan Thapar: What about something else, people say no doubt you have numbers behind you but you also stand up and say we are prepared to talk, we are prepared to be reasonable. But at the same time Anna is saying Jan Lokpal must be passed within 18 days. Your father (Shanti Bhushan) says any amendments… with Anna's permission. So what talk is possible in those conditions? Is this claim that you want to be reasonable and talk a pretence of reason... ?

Prashant Bhushan: Let's make it clear, while we are prepared to discuss what could be a better way of fighting corruption, if somebody is able to suggest a better way which we can understand might be a better way, we are not willing to compromise on corruption, meaning we are not willing to say…

Karan Thapar: Forgive me, who is willing to compromise on corruption? If you leave the PM out or higher judiciary out that is not a compromise.

Prashant Bhushan: Of course it is.

Karan Thapar: No it is not. That is a demagogic polemical answer. You are not looking at the fact that other people are as concerned about corruption, they are just tackling it differently.

Prashant Bhushan: Anyway we are entitled to put forward what we feel is the correct way of fighting corruption.

Karan Thapar: I have just 10 seconds - forgive me interrupting you. Are you prepared to sit and negotiate and till then call off this fast, or will the fast hang as a Sword of Damocles over Parliament?

Arvind Kejriwal: Karan, we have been in this process since First December. For four months we kept on writing letters, we kept on meeting, we engaged with people there was no response.

Karan Thapar: Are you saying no to me?

Arvind Kejriwal: Yes we are saying no to you.

Karan Thapar: A clear no?

Arvind Kejriwal: A clear no.

Karan Thapar: So no more talks.

Arvind Kejriwal: Of course talks are there.

Karan Thapar: How can you have talks and insist on the Jan Lokpal Bill at the same time.

Arvind Kejriwal: No no no, we are saying that the basic principles of this Bill have to be incorporated. The details can be worked out.

Karan Thapar: Basic principles have to be incorporated but the details can be left out Could the differences over the PM and the Judiciary be a detail….

Arvind Kejriwal: They are all basic issues.

Karan Thapar: On all those there's no talk.

Arvind Kejriwal: Of course. There is no talk.

Karan Thapar: I'm going to have to end it there. But the impression left and I'm going to put that to you as the last question. On the one hand you say that you are prepared to talk, on the other hand you are rigidly sticking to the principles of your Bill which can't be changed. What is there to talk about?

Prashant Bhushan: We are saying that if somebody is able to show us and convince us that these changes would be better to fight corruption, we are happy to discuss that. But you see, we are only going to advocate what we feel is the best way of fighting corruption.

Karan Thapar: I whish that it was just the advocacy you were doing. That's what concerns people. Many people thing you are pushing, insisting and demanding of a Parliament that has a right to decide for itself. There is a hint of negotiation possible but the sword is there at the same time. I think that is the fair way of summing up the position. I thank both of you for coming and speaking about not just Anna Hazare's attitude to Parliament but also the wider implications of the people's power movement.

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#Anna Hazare #Arvind Kejriwal #Prashant Bhushan #Kiran Bedi #Jan Lokpal Bill#Citizens Against Corruption #Ramlila Maidan #Protest Fast